Click here (petaluma360) to learn about a young American's literally fatal encounter with the 'Vine of Death'... What are your thoughts/reactions to this incident? Could/should anything have been done (or not done) differently?
6 comments:
Roxanne Girdlestone
said...
The death of an individual, particularly that of a young adult,is a lamentable occurrence. The world remains ripe to the youth, yet one moment of unfledged curiosity may end further experiences. Though my understanding of ayahuasca is limited, hallucinogens themselves do not induce death unless coupled with an adverse agent. Because the shaman had initially deceived Kyle Nolan's family, it is plausible to suggest that he substituted the ayahuasca for another substance. I also speculate, on the reverse, that Nolan had an adverse reaction to the concoction. He may have, quite figuratively, lost his mind and harmed himself. Until truth can be ascertained, speculation offers justice to neither party.
I think this death was unfortunate and could have been avoided. Kyle should have taken into account the possibility of interaction with other medications he may have been on including anything over the counter. His parents also should have been more involved with the decision and discussion about what could happen. In truth this was such a waste of a young mans life and the fact that the Shaman tried to cover it up makes you wonder about how truly safe and spiritual this specific ritual was.
It is sad that a young person died so young.They want to experience everything so fast. They believe that there is not much that can harm them. So they take unnessary risk. I am not sure if anything could done differently. At least he did die doing something he thought he would enjoy. I do not think the intent was death. I think maybe his thought process was this would be a cool experience to talk about to his friends. Unfortunely sometimes things do not turn out the way people wish for them to.
Clearly, this is a tragic story - one of a spiritual pursuit gone wrong. The article made it sound as though Kyle Nolan and his parents were somewhat cooperatively involved in the decision to attend the retreat and that he was rather educated on the topic. Because there is so much left to speculation, there is little that one could say could have been done differently. Ayahuasca is something that has been used for a very long time with little demonstrated risk. There are too many dependent variables in this situation - the location, the facilitator, the brew itself, other medications - to make an accurate judgement.
One minor point that i would like to add is that although the article refers to this substance more commonly as ayahuasca, the active chemical is dimethyltryptamine, which is commonly called DMT. I find this very interesting because in the United States DMT is an illegal psychedelic drug that is considered to have absolutely no risk of addiction purely because the overwhelming majority of people who take DMT find the experience to be too overwhelming and intense and are therefore, in a sense, afraid to ever repeat the experience. For this reason, if someone from a culture where this is found to be true attempts to dabble in the shamanic and psychedelic practices of a culture where DMT is used as an almost common tool for achieving an ASC, an undesirable outcome can almost be expected. Although i have never heard of anyone dying from DMT, because of the overwhelming intensity of the experience there are many variables associated with the atmosphere and mindset that can result in dangerous outcomes very quickly. As a final note, i must add that it is beyond despicable that these people attempted to hide the kid's body and lie about his death. Dabbling with mind altering chemicals often has the potential for danger, which means that those that work with such chemicals should be able to protect people from such dangers and openly acknowledge things that go wrong. -Zach
This is a tragedy but this also shows the problem with today's spirituality. This boy had no business there, it was not his heritage or his family's way. This is why he couldn't handle the drink and it killed him. We have to remember that these ways have been practiced by these people for thousands of years and physiologically speaking their bodies can take these mind altering drugs and rituals. This is like the Ghost Dances of the Native Americans. Some non-Natives have attempted these rituals and come close to death. This boy, and many others like him, cannot be made ready for such an experience in 10 days.
6 comments:
The death of an individual, particularly that of a young adult,is a lamentable occurrence. The world remains ripe to the youth, yet one moment of unfledged curiosity may end further experiences. Though my understanding of ayahuasca is limited, hallucinogens themselves do not induce death unless coupled with an adverse agent. Because the shaman had initially deceived Kyle Nolan's family, it is plausible to suggest that he substituted the ayahuasca for another substance. I also speculate, on the reverse, that Nolan had an adverse reaction to the concoction. He may have, quite figuratively, lost his mind and harmed himself. Until truth can be ascertained, speculation offers justice to neither party.
I think this death was unfortunate and could have been avoided. Kyle should have taken into account the possibility of interaction with other medications he may have been on including anything over the counter. His parents also should have been more involved with the decision and discussion about what could happen. In truth this was such a waste of a young mans life and the fact that the Shaman tried to cover it up makes you wonder about how truly safe and spiritual this specific ritual was.
Bob
It is sad that a young person died so young.They want to experience everything so fast. They believe that there is not much that can harm them. So they take unnessary risk. I am not sure if anything could done differently. At least he did die doing something he thought he would enjoy. I do not think the intent was death. I think maybe his thought process was this would be a cool experience to talk about to his friends. Unfortunely sometimes things do not turn out the way people wish for them to.
Lisa
Clearly, this is a tragic story - one of a spiritual pursuit gone wrong. The article made it sound as though Kyle Nolan and his parents were somewhat cooperatively involved in the decision to attend the retreat and that he was rather educated on the topic. Because there is so much left to speculation, there is little that one could say could have been done differently. Ayahuasca is something that has been used for a very long time with little demonstrated risk. There are too many dependent variables in this situation - the location, the facilitator, the brew itself, other medications - to make an accurate judgement.
Sophie
One minor point that i would like to add is that although the article refers to this substance more commonly as ayahuasca, the active chemical is dimethyltryptamine, which is commonly called DMT. I find this very interesting because in the United States DMT is an illegal psychedelic drug that is considered to have absolutely no risk of addiction purely because the overwhelming majority of people who take DMT find the experience to be too overwhelming and intense and are therefore, in a sense, afraid to ever repeat the experience. For this reason, if someone from a culture where this is found to be true attempts to dabble in the shamanic and psychedelic practices of a culture where DMT is used as an almost common tool for achieving an ASC, an undesirable outcome can almost be expected. Although i have never heard of anyone dying from DMT, because of the overwhelming intensity of the experience there are many variables associated with the atmosphere and mindset that can result in dangerous outcomes very quickly. As a final note, i must add that it is beyond despicable that these people attempted to hide the kid's body and lie about his death. Dabbling with mind altering chemicals often has the potential for danger, which means that those that work with such chemicals should be able to protect people from such dangers and openly acknowledge things that go wrong.
-Zach
This is a tragedy but this also shows the problem with today's spirituality. This boy had no business there, it was not his heritage or his family's way. This is why he couldn't handle the drink and it killed him. We have to remember that these ways have been practiced by these people for thousands of years and physiologically speaking their bodies can take these mind altering drugs and rituals. This is like the Ghost Dances of the Native Americans. Some non-Natives have attempted these rituals and come close to death. This boy, and many others like him, cannot be made ready for such an experience in 10 days.
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